Curse

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 17, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

no offense, but that logic doesn't really follow... "because I can beat area X without class Y, so then class Y isn't really needed."

That is what I added the..."at least in some places."

hidden_agenda · Nov 17, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

hmm... okay sorry, i think i incorrectly parsed your sentence...

Quote:

"You don't even need them really....at least in some places."

i parsed it as: "you don't need warriors, especially since you can succeed at this mission without them."

i think you meant: "in some areas you do not need warriors"

sorry about that... :P

lg5000 · Nov 17, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

Please join my PuG!

My perfect team consists of:

2 Warriors
2 Monks (1 healer, 1 protector, I hench them if I can't find players)
1 Ranger
1 Mesmer
1 Necro
1 Elementalist

Yep, I like having every class in the game on my 8-player team. Hell, it worked in Thunderhead Keep on my first try. Although I find the hardest class to find is Mesmer, but they make really short work of bosses and casters. Believe me, a Mesmer with Diversion makes those annoying Mursaat Monk bosses a snap. I never have more than 2 warriors, because 3 or more gives the team much less tactical advantage in terms of range.

To those who think Rangers are useless... learn how to play this game before saying that.

Hm.. my perfect group has two eles in it and only one warrior. This is from the perspective of monk and ele. Healing 1 warrior is easier than two, and as ele, I like having a pyromancer around so I can go hydro.

I also have a warrior, sorta needed that to unlock skills. And yes, I'm finding it's hard in the later missions to get a team as warrior, yet, standing at elona's reach with my mesmer, I keep getting blind invites.

Playing warrior has been challenging, and at times VERY boring. to top it off, I had to get to the dessert before I learned how to tank and accept that warriors did no damage.

RoF · Nov 17, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

I've never really played a warrior and don't plan to (just not my style), but I'm amazed by how much hate they are getting here! Yeesh!

It seems to me that the arguement is that too many warriors are overconfident idiots who run in, aggro everything, play unintelligently,etc.... my arguement would be... GOOD!

I mean, of course people who like to run up and smash things tend to choose the warrior class. It's a personality thing

Half the fun of playing GW Online is partying with 8 different personalities while having a blast. Think about it, the game would be boring if every Warrior was intelligent and held perfect aggro, and made rationale decisions all the time, THAT WOULD SUCK! Missions that go smoothly everytime are NOT FUN to play. I laugh when I see the warrior (or any other class) do something rash. "Here we go again

!"

Just realize that everyone has a different playing style. Just because your style is to make cautious, calculated, efficient decisions, doesn't mean everyone else has to. If everyone played the game your way it wouldn't be exciting.

In summary GW would suck without stupid people.

W/MO idiots FTW

Mordakai · Nov 17, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

In summary GW would suck without stupid people.

W/MO idiots FTW

LOL! This is sorta true... although it's great when a mish goes flawlessly, you're right... if it happened all the time that WOULD be boring.

Still, couldn't the stupid Warriors wait until I finish Thunder Keep?

Age · Nov 17, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Have some feeligs for us War/Mo most of us are't that bad and the ones who should be taking the lead is the Ranger anyway.We are the only one who can res while in battle.How would you set up a six person team?I played Monk before i played War except in beta when I played War/N in beta.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 17, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iteicea Destroidium

It was somewhat stated in an earlier post, but I feel that you should play a caster before you play a tanking warrior. My very first char...way back when, and when the game first came out was an ele. Playing an ele, I learned how to lose aggro fast and easy, and avoid getting it. That way, as a warrior I can easily take away the aggro from casters, leaving them to do their job. Yes, warrior is overused, and a generally immature class, but if you can find a good one, it makes all the difference

.

Also...playing an ele really helped me play monk too. I could energy manage very easily, was rare that I would run out, even with wanderer's armor, and once again the losing aggro I learned from playing ele payed off big time.

Sadly, this is not the case. Some people, no matter how politely you ask them, just don't listen and get mad at you for asking them to do anything other than what they want to do.

These people are the exception. Some people JUST ARE idiots.

--The Shim

Draygo Korvan · Nov 18, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Have some feeligs for us War/Mo most of us are't that bad and the ones who should be taking the lead is the Ranger anyway.We are the only one who can res while in battle.How would you set up a six person team?I played Monk before i played War except in beta when I played War/N in beta.

If everyone brings a res sig, you can keep them charged through most missions because there is usually a boss to kill for a nice recharge.

Res sig is the best res in the game, and it isnt restricted to a class.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 18, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draygo Korvan

If everyone brings a res sig, you can keep them charged through most missions because there is usually a boss to kill for a nice recharge.

Res sig is the best res in the game, and it isnt restricted to a class.

I agree half/half with this. No, it's not the BEST rez in the game. I think restore life is because it's attributed towards healing prayers <as I'm a healing prayers monk, and each rank it raises the HP/Energy rezzed person is rezzed with>

But yes, it's nice when you kill bosses it recharges, and it isn't restricted, but still there is much better <see above>.

--The Shim

Roza · Nov 18, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I won't comment on Warriors in PvE. I do know what a war can do in PvP however.

Warriors don't always seem to get this, but tanking is not needed in pvp most of the time (unless you are playing against inexperienced people). So 90% of all wa/mo's are not very useful, as they have about as much change to seriously trouble a couple of monks as a drunk of finding his keyhole. What warriors need is something from their secondary class to make them do more damage (or monks will simply outheal them with ease). Mending and healing breeze (the most popular wa/mo skills) do not provide that much needed extra damage.

Every wa/mo that takes a shot at serious pvp needs to learn to give up the idea of being a tank and learn how to do damage/hurt the other team. And this seems to be hard for most of them to understand. There are good damage dealing builds out there, but most wa/mo's just think "I was the last one standing of my team, so it must be their fault we lost" and keep playing their pve-build in pvp. And so, warrior/monks in pvp are generally considered noobs (being either inexperienced, stubborn or not very smart, or some combinatons of those). They need to make changes, but haven't figured this out yet.

The same thing is true for weapon choice. Some weapons make an enemy monk go

, some make them go

and a self-mending wa/mo with a fiery sword and a lot of stances will make them go.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 18, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roza

I won't comment on Warriors in PvE. I do know what a war can do in PvP however.

Warriors don't always seem to get this, but tanking is not needed in pvp most of the time (unless you are playing against inexperienced people). So 90% of all wa/mo's are not very useful, as they have about as much change to seriously trouble a couple of monks as a drunk of finding his keyhole. What warriors need is something from their secondary class to make them do more damage (or monks will simply outheal them with ease). Mending and healing breeze (the most popular wa/mo skills) do not provide that much needed extra damage.

Every wa/mo that takes a shot at serious pvp needs to learn to give up the idea of being a tank and learn how to do damage/hurt the other team. And this seems to be hard for most of them to understand. There are good damage dealing builds out there, but most wa/mo's just think "I was the last one standing of my team, so it must be their fault we lost" and keep playing their pve-build in pvp. And so, warrior/monks in pvp are generally considered noobs (being either inexperienced, stubborn or not very smart, or some combinatons of those). They need to make changes, but haven't figured this out yet.

The same thing is true for weapon choice. Some weapons make an enemy monk go

, some make them go

and a self-mending wa/mo with a fiery sword and a lot of stances will make them go.

You make a good point, but I though this discussion was in PVE, not PVP. IN PVP, this discussion would DEFINITELY take a different route.

--The Shim

ranna · Nov 18, 2005, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Ok firts I am not a noob. Been playing this game since it came out . But question is why do you all bag on the noobs. You were a noob once yourself. Thats where everyone starts at, you dont automatically start a cl20 character and if you did you would still be a noob because you wouldnt know how to use it. Just let them be and help them as they try to get to the levels of other characters, and learn the game better.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 18, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranna

Ok firts I am not a noob. Been playing this game since it came out . But question is why do you all bag on the noobs. You were a noob once yourself. Thats where everyone starts at, you dont automatically start a cl20 character and if you did you would still be a noob because you wouldnt know how to use it. Just let them be and help them as they try to get to the levels of other characters, and learn the game better.

Exactly what I posted in more words. We should get along; not tear at each other's throats, but there is an exception to the rule with people who really..are..just..idiots by nature and idiots by the fact they don't listen. But those like I said, are the exception. "Noobs" as it's states, is a hostile term. Everyone starts a new thing for the first time <once!> So help em out'

--The Shim

Age · Nov 18, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roza

I won't comment on Warriors in PvE. I do know what a war can do in PvP however.

Warriors don't always seem to get this, but tanking is not needed in pvp most of the time (unless you are playing against inexperienced people). So 90% of all wa/mo's are not very useful, as they have about as much change to seriously trouble a couple of monks as a drunk of finding his keyhole. What warriors need is something from their secondary class to make them do more damage (or monks will simply outheal them with ease). Mending and healing breeze (the most popular wa/mo skills) do not provide that much needed extra damage.

Every wa/mo that takes a shot at serious pvp needs to learn to give up the idea of being a tank and learn how to do damage/hurt the other team. And this seems to be hard for most of them to understand. There are good damage dealing builds out there, but most wa/mo's just think "I was the last one standing of my team, so it must be their fault we lost" and keep playing their pve-build in pvp. And so, warrior/monks in pvp are generally considered noobs (being either inexperienced, stubborn or not very smart, or some combinatons of those). They need to make changes, but haven't figured this out yet.

The same thing is true for weapon choice. Some weapons make an enemy monk go

, some make them go

and a self-mending wa/mo with a fiery sword and a lot of stances will make them go.

What would you suggest they do use smiting like I sometimes.

Roza · Nov 18, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

What would you suggest they do use smiting like I sometimes.

Well, I have never seen a good (self-) smiting wa/mo build yet (for pvp), but these may well exist. I heard it being said that good damage dealing wa/mo's are possible with some smiting combo, though I think that other secondaries offer more possibilities.

But even if these builds are possible, they are not being used by at least 90% of wa/mo's in pvp. I am not sure if self-healing is good for a monk in PvE (never played a pve warrior beyond old Ascalon, really) - though I am pretty sure that self-mending is not all that hot if there are monks around to heal you. Protecting yourself as a war may be good when serving as a tank for mobs, but (experienced) pvp players are not mobs (they have at least some form if IQ).

Protecting others (like a monk) in pvp may seem nice, but you are more help to your team by killing the enemy as fast as you can or hindering them in some way.

When entering comp. Arena with my monk, I often encounter 2 or 3 war/monks casting mending on themselves (not on me, the monk with much lower armour). When the battle is joined the enemy (provided that these have any sense) all target me, ignoring the wa/mo's or blinding them or putting a hex on one or two. I will do my best to keep myself alive which generally works well enough if the other team is also made up from a lot of sword-wielding wa/mo's, but if the other team is worth anything, they will kill me sooner or later. I try to buy the others enough time to kill the other team, but the wa/mo's only have warrior skills to damage (and not as much of those because they typically have mending, healing breeze, some monk rez spell and hardly any energy because of the maintained mending enchantment). If the other team has a monk, he/she will probably out-heal their damage with ease. So while I am being backfired, drained, hit with ele damage and aftershocked by a KD war, they do only moderate damage. When I am down, the other team is still very much alive and (probably) being healed by their monk. And they take out the war/monks one by one (maybe taking the time to kill me again should one of the wa/mo's think to rez me).
And if the other team has 2 monks, there is no way that our team is going to kill them.

What happens with these wa/mo's is that they are less likely to get a nice winning streak in comp arena (only if they get lucky), they are less likely to find a good team in the team arena and if they play tombs, most experienced players will not accept them, so they will join bad PuGs and rarely win, except when fighting other bad PuGs. Some will see IWAY beating them everytime and change to Wa/ranger with a pet, some of them will persist as self-healing wa/mo's in pvp and many will stop playing pvp and turn back to pve. Which is a shame, really, as they could become quite good at pve if only they were a little more flexible and observant.

I would advise any war/monk wanting to pvp to either find one of the rare serious-damage doing wa/mo builds refered to above, change his/her secondary class, or - better yet - make a pvp character that is not a war/monk and learn to rely on other team members for healing. And maybe switch to something other than swords with hundred baldes.

Shadow · Nov 18, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Warriors were made in the image of Chirs Farely.

Roza · Nov 18, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I guess so.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 18, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven Deadly Sins

Warriors were made in the image of Chirs Farely. <Chris Farley, please spell right!>

YES, I miss him so; he made me laugh something awful. Thats also a close link with warriors in game ^_^

But seriously, we just need to get along people. Make the first step. Be friendly.

--The Shim

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 18, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

its true there are way too many warriors, but if you weed through the idiots, there are some really really good wars out there

Roza · Nov 18, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Yup. So much weeding to do, though.